I’ve decided to tackle on another question in a public forum about Botox.
I’m a Botox user but over the last 3 – 4 times I’ve had Botox it hasn’t worked as well. What unit of Botox would I ideally want?
I’ve been getting Botox for a few years,recently its not worked as well ,getting top ups is a hassel, especially when it doesn’t work again.i asked my doctor what units he used, what type and the dilution solution , ‘ Azzalure which is the same as Dysport. Diluted with bacteriostatic saline solution to produce 200 Speywood units per ml. ‘frown 50-60units’ is this good? I’m thinking of changing doctors, what would the best thing to ask them?how many units do i want injected if this didnt work?
There are so many different ways to inject a neuromodulator and there are so many possibilities for a neuromodulator injection to work less effectively. I’m going to use the word neuromodulator to describe Botox, Dysport, or Xeomin. I agree that Dysport is sometimes called Azzalure.
WHAT CAUSES VARIANCES IN OUR RESULTS?
- Is the patient Zinc deficient? Zinc seems to play a role in neuromodulator
- Did the patient develop antibodies to the product?
- How long ago was the patients previous neuromodulator treatment. Often, when the treatments are close enough together, there’s a synergistic effect of the previous injection along with the new injection. Thus don’t wait too long between injections where to facial muscles have gained back all their strength.
- Dilution of the product. Was it diluted appropriately.
- Age of product. How long has it been on the shelf? Shelf life can matter.
- Which product? I feel that the neuromodulators are somewhat different from each other. The units cannot be interchanged very easily. It’s sort of like asking – how many tangerines does it take to make a washing navel orange? Similar, yet different for the discriminating injector/patient.
- Where were the injections made?
- Was there waste of product?
- Was the measurements accurate?
- Three dimensional injection, was the neuromodulator placed within the muscle or right under the skin, or right above the bone?
- How many injection points were chosen?
I’m probably forgetting a few variables. But you can see that there’s so much going on here.
THE ANTIBODY QUESTION: Try more Dysport and/or go back to Botox.
Consider going back to your injector and asking for a higher dose of Dysport. If that still doesn’t work, then consider asking your injector to switch back to your original – Botox – which seemed to work for you. If both the higher dose and switching back to Botox – this might point to an antibody problem. This will degrade the product faster. This is a very rare possibility. I think in the past, this happened more because of the higher percentage of albumin mixed in with the Botox. But it’s a much lower amount of albumin used now and thus the antibody reactions are much rarer. If antibody reactions occur, I believe that you’d be forming reactions to all Botulinum Toxin Type A’s: Xeomin, Dysport, and Botox. These are the ones available in the USA.
But if you have doubt about your injector. You can switch. Neuromodulator injection styles are incredibly different – this might be what you’re looking for – something different. And hopefully better results. I think you have a good idea on this one.
OR SPEND MORE TIME DISCUSSING THE PROBLEM
Consider spending even more time talking to your injector. Perhaps he/she will come up with a comprehensive plan of figuring out what’s happening with your new dissatisfaction. Above is just my own plan of what I do with my patients who present with such a scenario. But most of the time, it’s because I’ve gotten patients who have decided to switch to me due to dissatisfaction with results from another injector.
IDEAL BOTOX UNITS FOR THE GLABELLA:
How many units of Botox for frown lines? I call these lines glabellar lines. I usually inject anywhere from 10-36 units of Botox for this one area. Every person is different, but usually I am sticking to the same general amount of units for each treatment session. Thus if a patient is a 36 unit user – they tend to be a 36 unit user for a few years. I have found that they can usually space the treatments further apart though as they keep using Botox.
On average, I use 20 units of Botox for the glabellar complex. The numbers written above in the question are probably Dysport units which could be about 3 times more than the Botox units to achieve a similar (not same) result. I’m not entirely sure because I am nearly 100% Botox in my own practice. My experience with Dysport spans only about 3 months in my practice. I was pretty happy with the Dysport results, but my patients seem to want Botox more, so I caved into consumer demand. I am happy with both products. But I do not use the terms Botox, Xeomin, and Dysport interchangeably. They are different products and have different effects and require different care.
Thank you for your question. Without having seen you in person, I’m answering the best I can without physical examination info and a one-on-one dialogue. My comments are meant for a general public discussion to help others who may have similar concerns. I’m also using my answers to build up library of information for my own patients and also to see how my answers compare with other doctors. There is always much for us to learn from each other. My answers are generalized medical information only, not directed medical advice. For medical advice please see your doctor/surgeon in person.
Calvin Lee, MD
Botox injections Modesto, California